{"id":13772,"date":"2016-08-16T08:41:35","date_gmt":"2016-08-16T08:41:35","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/?p=13772"},"modified":"2021-02-09T15:37:44","modified_gmt":"2021-02-09T15:37:44","slug":"the-internet-fools-and-the-shadowy-scout-rifle-elite","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/the-internet-fools-and-the-shadowy-scout-rifle-elite\/","title":{"rendered":"The Internet, Fools, and the Shadowy Scout Rifle Elite"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"IMG_7247\"<\/a><\/p>\n

About four years ago I undertook the task of writing a book about Scout Rifles<\/a>. (I hope to releases it in early 2017.) The research has been exhaustive and during the process\u00a0I stumbled on The Scout Rifle Forum<\/a>. Now, I learned long ago that forums are a lot like houses of ill-repute; they look appealing from the outside but once you become involved, you need to intimately familiarize yourself with the word \u201cregret.\u201d Still, I lurked and over time began to believe I\u2019d found an exception. I joined, was greeted fairly by many, and began to participate.<\/p>\n

All was rainbows with only a few unicorn farts until I shared\u00a0some of my research findings. These were met with challenges. I accepted that and defended the facts as I had found them. But, some of the members had this highbrow attitude that seemed to suggest they and the forum were the encyclopedic source for all things Scout Rifle. It was clear they\u2019d been schooled on Cooper and his concept but it was also clear\u00a0some\u00a0also took too few of his words<\/em> and turned them into absolutes. Cooper wrote prolifically on the Scout Rifle and you cannot comprehend his intentions unless you have read him, and have read those who influenced him, extensively.<\/p>\n

I took this in stride and since I had more important things to do and read, for the most part ceased participation. I now refer\u00a0to the forum as the lair of the Shadowy Scout Rifle Elite. Some members took issue with or found humor in my representation of their simulated shooting world. They even had T-shirts made up. I assume only the hurt feelings were felt by those who\u00a0recognized the truth in my statement. My description was, by definition, factual.<\/p>\n

That being, \u201cshadowy\u201d becasue the vast majority of the members use a handle or pseudonym; they do not list their real name. It\u2019s kind of like a new millennium version of the CB radio, Rubber Duck and all. The \u201cScout Rifle\u201d term needs no explanation, ergo the name of the forum. As far as \u201celite,\u201d well, you have to request membership and if you act up you get called down or maybe ejected. I don\u2019t know about where you might be from but in West Virginia we call that elitism.<\/p>\n

\"IMG_2417\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Don\u2019t get me wrong, There are some good folks who frequent the forum and I learned stuff while participating. Some even had direct access to Cooper and two of them\u00a0I’ve actually seen shoot. They can shoot rather well. (One was even named the most outstanding student at the 2016 Scout Rifle Conference.) If you have a burning desire to learn stuff about Scout Rifles I\u2019d suggest you sign up but to be safe, pronounce upon your arrival you know nothing about the Scout Rifle and you\u2019re there to bathe in their wisdom. Do this and they\u2019ll wrap a blanket around you, and you\u2019ll have direct access to \u201cAndy\u201d<\/a> who makes some of the best rifle slings in the world! (He uses his real name by the way.)<\/p>\n

As it turns out, after my interview with James Yeager of Tactical Response<\/a> about the Scout Rifle, where he asked me to help him explain to his viewers the Scout Rifle concept, I was alerted to some comments one of the Shadowy Scout Rifle Elite had posted on the forum I’d abandoned.<\/p>\n

I have no desire to directly address the person\u00a0who penned these, after all I do not know their real name. For all I know, he \/ she is living in his mother\u2019s basement with Cheetos stains on his fingers and keyboard. What I wanted to do here is use his comments to illustrate some points. The first is that the Scout Rifle concept is a complicated thing, which is precisely why I am writing the book. Many have read some<\/em> of Cooper\u2019s works and think they know all there is. (Lots of gun writers and bloggers especially.)\u00a0The other is that the Internet is full of many folks\u00a0willing to proclaim absolute facts – about many things – based on limited research. Here’s the thing with regard to Scout Rifles and the Internet: Don’t take what anyone – including me – says as gospel. Trust if you dare but verify.<\/p>\n

\"Screen<\/a>
This is the video referenced in the below comments. Scroll to the bottom of this journal entry to watch.<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

One of the reasons James Yeager was invited to the 2016 Scout Rifle Conference was because he has shown a serious interest in Scout Rifles and he has the ability to reach many shooters who might also like to experiment with the concept. When I had my opportunity to further the appeal of the Scout Rifle to his viewers, I tried to do it in the best way I felt could be understood by those unfamiliar with it, in as little\u00a0time as possible. (You know the attention span on the Internet.)<\/p>\n

So, with that foundation, here are excerpts of the comments generated by someone who is a true member of the Shadowy Scout Rifle Elite, taken from the one website where I know there are\u00a0folks\u00a0with the knowledge base to\u00a0have educated this person before they made a fool out of themselves.<\/p>\n

\"ss1\"<\/a>
This is Scout II or “Sweetheart” as Cooper called it. It was possibly his favorite prototype Scout Rifle.<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Comment 1:<\/strong> The Colonel never said the rifle had to have a forward mounted optic.<\/p>\n

The Facts:<\/strong> Admittedly, this is a tricky subject because of the many and varied definitions Cooper offered for the Scout Rifle. But, to keep it simple and address the “never”<\/em> comment, lets look at what Cooper wrote in Volume X, Number 10 of Gunsite Gossip in 1990:<\/p>\n

\u201c\u2026several Scout conferences have established the rules\u2026.Therefore, the piece is not a true Scout unless:\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

    \n
  1. It uses a short action.<\/em><\/li>\n
  2. Its overall length does not exceed one meter.<\/em><\/li>\n
  3. It mounts a Scoutscope forward of the magazine well.<\/strong><\/em><\/li>\n
  4. It is fitted with a CW sling.<\/em><\/li>\n
  5. It is equipped with reserve Iron sights.<\/em><\/li>\n
  6. It weighs no more than seven pounds.<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

     <\/p>\n

    \"IMG_1176\"<\/a>
    The “snapshot” as Cooper saw it was perfect for dealing with a threat, up close, fast. He even had students shoot at clays to demonstrate how effective it could be.<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

    Comment 2:<\/strong> The colonel DID NOT specify the forward mounted optic just for snap shooting.<\/p>\n

    The Facts:<\/strong> I never said he did. My words in the interview at 5:49 were, \u201cOne of the things Cooper specified about the scout<\/em> [not scoutscope], he said it was ideally adapted to the snapshot.\u201d<\/em> I then went on to explain how the forward mounted optic contributes to that adaptation. In Volume 21, Number 9, September 2001, of Gunsite Gossip Cooper said, \u201cThe Scoutscope is now available. It is particularly well suited for the snapshot, yet it loses nothing that I can detect in slow-fire.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

    Comment 3:<\/strong> The Lion encounter DID NOT compel The Colonel to learn\/teach the snap shot (good heavens, Mann). Jeff and his students were happily “snapping away” long before he could even hope to afford a lion hunt.<\/p>\n

    The Facts:<\/strong> I never said it did. In the interview when I referenced the lion \u2013 as a good illustration viewers would understand with regard to what a\u00a0snapshot is and when it might be needed – at 6:13 I said, \u201c\u2026that was kind of what he foreseen. You got an immediate threat, close, and you gotta deal with it instantly.\u201d <\/em>Foreseen is the operative word here, and what better way to describe how Cooper’s doctrine\u00a0was ultimately implemented. (Apparently good listening<\/em> skills are as rare as good reading comprehension skills.) It is most probable that Cooper found his influence for the snapshot, at least in part, from his teenage reading of, and later reading about, Stewart Edward White.<\/p>\n

    \"DYS-15\"<\/a>
    This Scout Rifle built by custom gunsmith Jerry Dove<\/a> is outfitted with the excellent Rhodesian sling. You can buy one from Andy who operates The Scout Rifle Forum<\/a>. It is designed to aid with shooting.<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

    Comment 4:<\/strong> He never even mentioned a shooting sling.<\/p>\n

    The Facts:<\/strong>\u00a0On this point the comment is spot on. I did not mention a shooting sling. Nor did I mention all the acceptable Scout Rifle cartridges, the hammerhead sling sockets, magazine cutoff, proper stock design, the retractable bipod, the butt-cuff ammo storage, the Remington 600, and about 20 blue million other things. Tonight I will do what I do almost every night and read Cooper, but this time as penance.<\/p>\n

    \"Screen<\/a>
    This is an example of a “Magnum Scout” or as it was more commonly called by Cooper, a “Super Scout.” This rifle was built for American Handgunner editor Cameron Hopkins, by Melvin Forbes of New Ultra Light Arms<\/a>, after he saw Cooper’s “Lion Scout.”<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

    Comment 5:<\/strong> Jeff never referred to ANY of his rifles, in print, as “…magnum scouts…”<\/p>\n

    The Facts:<\/strong> In a description of the Scout Rifle titled, The Scout Rifle Concept, Cooper wrote, \u201cThe \u2018Magnum Scout\u2019 or \u2018Super Scout,\u2019 is in 350 RM.\u201d<\/em> This document was found in Cooper\u2019s personal files. Additionally, in a 1998 article for Guns & Ammo<\/u> titled, The Scout Rifle: Some Simple Principles, Cooper, speculating on Steyr\u2019s introduction of the .376 Steyr or \u201cDragoon\u201d as he often called it, wrote, \u201cThe \u2018Magnum Scout,\u2019 if it appears, will not make weight, of course.\u201d<\/em> In case some, as they have in the past, suggest this was an editorial change, I was able to uncover the draft for this article in the files Janelle Cooper provided me.<\/p>\n

    I’m sure only true Scout Rifle devotees have struggled through this narrative. If you are just a gun guy, or anyone else for that matter, and have managed to get this far, here is some free advice for the pain and suffering you have endured.<\/p>\n

    When you say \u201cnever\u201d you best be sure because never, never<\/em> means\u00a0most of the time, never always and only means never!<\/p>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    About four years ago I undertook the task of writing a book about Scout Rifles. (I hope to releases it in early 2017.) The research has been exhaustive and during the process\u00a0I stumbled on The Scout Rifle Forum. Now, I learned long ago that forums are a lot like houses of ill-repute; they look appealing from the outside but once you become …<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[2509,2579,2522,3024,2500],"tags":[2709,62,1980],"class_list":["post-13772","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-defense","category-editorial","category-hunt","category-scout-rifles","category-shooting","tag-internet-forums","tag-jeff-cooper","tag-scout-rifles"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p5hujZ-3A8","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":14160,"url":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/introducing-the-scout-rifle-study-a-web-book\/","url_meta":{"origin":13772,"position":0},"title":"Introducing: The Scout Rifle Study – A Web Book","author":"gunwriter","date":"January 12, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"The Scout Rifle Study is\u00a0a project that began so long ago I've forgotten when. It started as research for an article and morphed into an obsession that has consumed much of my time. When it was announced that the findings of the study would be published in book format I\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "DEFENSE"","block_context":{"text":"DEFENSE","link":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/category\/defense\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"SRS Logo 3 white","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/01\/SRS-Logo-3-white-1024x506.png?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":16462,"url":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/daily-blog-12-20-20-scout-rifles\/","url_meta":{"origin":13772,"position":1},"title":"Daily Blog: 12\/20\/20 (Scout Rifles)","author":"gunwriter","date":"December 20, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"The interest in Scout Rifles continues to elevate and I believe that is a good thing. Given the world we are living in, having one rifle that is capable of handling any task a rifle is suited for is a good idea. What concerns me is that many do not\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Daily Blog"","block_context":{"text":"Daily Blog","link":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/category\/daily-blog\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/NULA-Scout-LR.jpg?fit=1000%2C338&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/NULA-Scout-LR.jpg?fit=1000%2C338&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/NULA-Scout-LR.jpg?fit=1000%2C338&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/NULA-Scout-LR.jpg?fit=1000%2C338&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":11775,"url":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/what-is-a-scout-rifle\/","url_meta":{"origin":13772,"position":2},"title":"What is a scout rifle?","author":"gunwriter","date":"June 25, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"Do you know the answer to this question? Or, do you just think you know the answer?\u00a0Maybe the more important question to ask is, can the scout rifle be definitively defined? Conducting research and experiments to support my upcoming book, The Scout Rifle Study, I\u2019ve spent the last two years\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "DEFENSE"","block_context":{"text":"DEFENSE","link":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/category\/defense\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Scout-1","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":11431,"url":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/year-of-the-scout\/","url_meta":{"origin":13772,"position":3},"title":"Year of the Scout","author":"gunwriter","date":"March 5, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"As predicted pre-SHOT Show, 2015 looks to be the year of the scour rifle. We've already seen two new introductions and Ruger and Steyr have added models to the line up. Some may find the concept unusual but the good news is these rifles have a lot to offer even\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "DEFENSE"","block_context":{"text":"DEFENSE","link":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/category\/defense\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Scout-1","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/03\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/03\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/03\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/03\/Scout-1.jpg?resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":13688,"url":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/the-ultimate-scout-rifle\/","url_meta":{"origin":13772,"position":4},"title":"The Ultimate Scout Rifle","author":"gunwriter","date":"July 25, 2016","format":false,"excerpt":"\u00a0 It could be argued there is, only has been, and ever will be, one true Scout Rifle. Cooper referred to all of the Scout Rifles he created as prototypes and proclaimed the Steyr Scout Rifle the best personal rifle in the world. You see, Cooper did not own the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "DEFENSE"","block_context":{"text":"DEFENSE","link":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/category\/defense\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"SS-1","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/SS-11.png?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/SS-11.png?resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/SS-11.png?resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/SS-11.png?resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":16643,"url":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-2\/","url_meta":{"origin":13772,"position":5},"title":"Analysis of the Scout Rifle: Part 2","author":"gunwriter","date":"February 15, 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"This is the second in a series of articles concerning the Scout Rifle. It could be considered an addendum to my book, The Scout Rifle Study. The Problem with the term\/name, Scout Rifle Maybe the largest problem Cooper created was with the name he chose to give his concept rife.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Latest"","block_context":{"text":"Latest","link":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/category\/latest\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Patriot-Scout-3.jpg?fit=1000%2C652&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Patriot-Scout-3.jpg?fit=1000%2C652&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Patriot-Scout-3.jpg?fit=1000%2C652&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Patriot-Scout-3.jpg?fit=1000%2C652&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13772","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=13772"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13772\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":16589,"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13772\/revisions\/16589"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=13772"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=13772"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/empty-cases.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=13772"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}